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A conspiracy theory

  • I am not promoting a new conspiracy theory but i think this declassified document may give a glimpse about how such a secret project may be developed and kept secret from the public while that at the same time the NASA public program to put the first man on the Moon was proposed and worked out.
    If i have the proof that this secret project became reality of course not...but that is a good read as to how a military secret project to build a Moon base may have been being worked out in the mid-sixties.
    198 pages (7Mb)
    http://www.boomslanger.com/images/lunex.pdf
      January 5, 2018 9:06 AM PST
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  • They could have kept it a secret only until they started missions. I don't see anything in there that describes how to keep this all secret. 

    This document has so many assumptions about what the (later named) Apollo project would achieve that it is too vague to draw any conclusions. It's merely a requirements document for the military version of Apollo.

    Just because a military document is "confidential" doesn't imply a secret project (certainly details would be kept secret). 

    It's already been established that the military has worked side-by-side with NASA during their space research. A good example is MOL. We never knew about MOL, but then again we never launched one.

    Even now... News about the X-37B is well known. We just don't know the details of the program.
      January 5, 2018 9:09 AM PST
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  • Matt D. Burditt said:
    They could have kept it a secret only until they started missions. I don't see anything in there that describes how to keep this all secret. 

    This document has so many assumptions about what the (later named) Apollo project would achieve that it is too vague to draw any conclusions. It's merely a requirements document for the military version of Apollo.

    Just because a military document is "confidential" doesn't imply a secret project (certainly details would be kept secret). 

    It's already been established that the military has worked side-by-side with NASA during their space research. A good example is MOL. We never knew about MOL, but then again we never launched one.

    Even now... News about the X-37B is well known. We just don't know the details of the program.

    That's the problem, once you start putting payloads on top of rockets it's rather hard to miss. Not to mention that unless your manned missions maintain complete radio silence someone will know they are there even if the transmissions are encrypted.
      January 5, 2018 9:18 AM PST
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  • Park Tsou said:
    I am not promoting a new conspiracy theory but i think this declassified document may give a glimpse about how such a secret project may be developed and kept secret from the public while that at the same time the NASA public program to put the first man on the Moon was proposed and worked out.


    The very first page with any appreciable content describes the goal as support of the National Space Program. There is no indication that the project it describes was intended to be secret. To the contrary, it suggests a public program. Keep in mind that plans to explore the Moon began long before Kennedy made it a national priority. Naturally the Air Force wanted to grab the funding and prestige to manage the U.S. manned space program. At the time, practically any planning or forecasting document was classified, whether written by NASA or by the military.
      January 5, 2018 9:21 AM PST
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  • Anthony J. Lane said:
    The very first page with any appreciable content describes the goal as support of the National Space Program. There is no indication that the project it describes was intended to be secret. To the contrary, it suggests a public program. Keep in mind that plans to explore the Moon began long before Kennedy made it a national priority. Naturally the Air Force wanted to grab the funding and prestige to manage the U.S. manned space program. At the time, practically any planning or forecasting document was classified, whether written by NASA or by the military.

    The interesting section which shown the difference of the 2 programs start in page 8.Section 1.3: pay attention to the description of the manned re-entry vehicle which should be able to land as a normal unpowered aircraft at a Z1 base... huh(?)
    Note also the mention of a cargo payload launcher using the same three stage rocket booster than the one used for the manned missions but who(the cargo payload) is destined to transport supplies and cargo to the expedition on the Moon. ....all of this as you will see further in the PDF must be done using an automated launcher system for the manned and cargo missions .... and an automated guidance system for the unmanned cargo mission using beacons at a pre selectionned position for the automated landing of the cargo on the Moon surface.
    This post was edited by Park Tsou at January 5, 2018 9:33 AM PST
      January 5, 2018 9:26 AM PST
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  • Yes, to reiterate, the use of the word 'secret' on the document refers only to the document itself, not the project it details. There is nothing in the text to indicate this program was intended to be secret. And with the size of facilities and rockets, and the links with civil engineering contractors described, the project could not be secret once it was being built.
      January 5, 2018 9:29 AM PST
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  • Park Tsou said:


    The interesting section which shown the difference of the 2 programs start in page 8.Section 1.3: pay attention to the description of the manned re-entry vehicle which should be able to land as a normal unpowered aircraft at a Z1 base... huh(?)
    Note also the mention of a cargo payload launcher using the same three stage rocket booster than the one used for the manned missions but who(the cargo payload) is destined to transport supplies and cargo to the expedition on the Moon. ....all of this as you will see further in the PDF must be done using an automated launcher system for the manned and cargo missions .... and an automated guidance system for the unmanned cargo mission using beacons at a pre selectionned position for the automated landing of the cargo on the Moon surface.


    And all that substantiates that it's a secret program ... how?
      January 5, 2018 9:32 AM PST
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  • Anthony J. Lane said:


    And all that substantiates that it's a secret program ... how?

    Do you have any information that this program was publicly discussed in the sixties by the Military, the DOD or by NASA?
      January 5, 2018 9:35 AM PST
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  • Park Tsou said:

    Do you have any information that this program was publicly discussed in the sixties by the Military, the DOD or by NASA?


    But that's not your claim. Your claim is that this document describes a secret lunar exploration program. 

    So it's up to you to present information from the document that supports your claim. As far as I can tell, the information in the document doesn't support your claim. Instead:

    1. It describes a project that, based on the historical realities, must necessarily have been highly public in almost all respects, in order to accomplish its goals.

    2. It includes no provisions for secrecy on the project, nor does it list any project elements that are necessarily secret by nature.

    However, I have not read the document in its entirety, so I'm not prepared to back up the above claims.

    I am, however, greatly interested to see what passages you will cite from the document, in support of your claim that it describes a secret project. Your citation above appears to certainly describe a lunar exploration project, but doesn't seem to describe a secret lunar exploration project. 

    Did you mean to claim that if the Air Force discusses an automated lunar supply vehicle, they must therefore be talking about a secretautomated lunar supply vehicle?

    Because that would be a strange claim. Lunar supply vehicles, by there very nature, would not be at all secret. Perhaps there might be some secrecy around the payloads, but as far as I have read, the document contains no discussion of secret payloads, and no discussion of secrecy provisions for the payloads (or the vehicles, or the missions, etc.).
      January 5, 2018 9:38 AM PST
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  • Langley Fontaine said:
    But that's not your claim. Your claim is that this document describes a secret lunar exploration program. 

    So it's up to you to present information from the document that supports your claim. As far as I can tell, the information in the document doesn't support your claim. Instead:



    Read the notice below page 2 of the Pdf paper about the interdiction by law and the sanctions reserved to an individual who reveals anything described in this document to an non -authorized person.
    Text begin by :
    This document contain information affecting the national defense of the united states...
      January 5, 2018 9:43 AM PST
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